Topic: Focus confirm confirmed?

Hi!

Since I started to use MF lenses I have been wondering about those focus confirm adapters and most of what I read is a lot of speculation and "i heard that". So I bought on eBay from two different sellers those adapters with the new Optix V5 chips. I just got the first one and I wanted to share my first impressions.

It works!

All that it is supposed to do, it does! I now have a focal length and max apperture information in the exif, although it thinks it's a zoom so I get the info: 35mm (35-35). I don't know if their is a way to tell it that it is a prime. The focus adjustment works to. The Trap Focus Mode works also, but focus should be moved slowly otherwise by the time it sees the correct focus and take the picture you may have gone beyond the focus point.

The question is: will it be useful? For now I use live view to focus carefully. Will I get sufficient good result to trust it always? I don't know, but to be fair, in controlled situation, I use LV even with modern AF lenses. I always find AF to be a little off.

I just thought I'd share this as I read a lot of questions about those and few detailed answers.

Bernard

Canon 7D, 30D, Sigma 8-16, Sigma 17-70, Spotmatic SPII, 15 Taks from 24 to 400, Jupiter 9, Canon FD 200 f2.8 and 300 f4.
www.flickr.com/photos/31624729@N07/

Re: Focus confirm confirmed?

Hey, there.


Well, I'd say you are probably confusing things a bit. The purpose of the focus confirm chips is not to PERFORM focus, but to ALLOW the camera's AF sensors to work.

It's like this: I'm assuming you're refering to Canon. EOS cameras are designed with a "limp", i.e., their AF sensors are disabled unless there is an AF lens atached. What the chip does is simply to fool the camera into "thinking" it has an AF lens attached, but in manual focus mode (maybe you're already tired of knowing all this, sorry wink). So (and remember, this is only my resoning, I've had no more than some "goofing around" with an EOS 400 and some of my Nikkor glass via a chipped adapter), is that the focus acuracy will be as good with a chipped-adapter-plus-manual-lens combo as it will be with an EF(-s) lens.


As I said, I have very little hands-on experience with EOS cameras with manual glass, but I can compare what happens with Nikon and Pentax.

My lowly (but WONDERFULL big_smile) Nikon D40 has never given me trouble, it usually nails focus right on (even with my adapted Rokkor 58 1,2 yikes), but I've had a lot of trouble with my Pentax K20D, even with a Pentax-M 50 1,4. And I'm refering, in both cases, to regular, real world use hmm. In fact, even with the K20D's focus adjustment (wich the D40 doesn't have), it's "keeper count" (due to misfocus) is worse than with the Nikon camera sad.


So, unless there is a problem with the adapter (i.e., poorly machined = tilted lens), the results (as far as focus acuracy goes) should be about the same as with AF lenses. Remember, it may be necessary to adjust the camera's AF compensation settings (if available) for each lens hmm...


I'd say, in controled situations, keep using live view, that's probably the best way of garanteeing results. In uncontroled situations, tha AF confirm is surely better than nothing wink.


Cheers!

Nikon: D7000; F2; F4; FA. RMC Tokina 17/3,5; Ensinor 24/2,8 Macro; Nikkor: S.C. 50/1,4; AI-s 28/2,8; Micro 55/2,8; 80-200/4; S. E: 35/2,5; 100/2,8; Viv. S. 1 105/2,5 Macro (Kiron); MC Rokkor PG 58/1,2; Canon FD 300/4; Pentacon 135/2,8.
Pentax: K20D; CZJ Flek 20/4; SMC Pentax: A 28/2,8; 50/1,7; M 50/1,4; Tak. 50/1,4; Tamron Adall 2: SP 90/2,5 Macro; SP 60-300; 35-70/3,5 CF; .
And some others...

Re: Focus confirm confirmed?

Glimavitor,

Thank you for your explanation, but I know very well how the autofocus system works. I understand that the adaptor is not responsible for the focus, but the camera is. I just thought I'd share my appreciation of it as it was the kind of information I was looking for to help me make up my mind on buying one or not, but never found.

On thing that I find strange is that I seem to get over exposed image (one stop) with the chipped adaptor compared to a non chipped adaptor, regardless of focus or aperture setting (f2, 5.6 and 16) . I tried on a real life contrasty scene and on a gray card. Any clue as to why? The only difference between the two is that one of them is black... I doubt that this could affect metering. Could the chip it self have an effect?

I once read that Canon was compensating on some very fast primes by over exposing the pictures, for not being able to pickup all the light from the lens because of the micro lenses on the sensor:

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/essay … rers.shtml

On the 7D their is almost 1 EV compensation with lenses with 1.2 openings! I programed my chip with a F2 max aperture so I doubt that this is the reason.

Anybody with a clue? Thanks!

Canon 7D, 30D, Sigma 8-16, Sigma 17-70, Spotmatic SPII, 15 Taks from 24 to 400, Jupiter 9, Canon FD 200 f2.8 and 300 f4.
www.flickr.com/photos/31624729@N07/

Re: Focus confirm confirmed?

The only camera that even came close in Av mode with manual glass is my old Xt,  and even it would underexpose  more and more  as you stopped down some  lenses.   It seemed to be   just some lenses,  even in the same focal length,  I never found any logic to it.

My 40D's  are absolutely horrendous.   I've had to simply switch to M  and "chimp"  exposure into shape.

I've not shot much  --yet--   with my 7D  so don't know how it will compare.


I've not had much accuracy out of AF chips.   I'd encourage you  --now that you have  this  "new"  chip-- and live view -- to do some careful  checking to see just how accurate the chip is.

Please post more info  so I can ID  what it is that you have.   I may try one.

Re: Focus confirm confirmed?

I had really bad metering with my 30D but since I got the 7D the metering has been great! Almost perfect at any aperture! You can look for it on eBay, they are identified as Optix V5+.

I did some tests with a gray card and here are the results:

No chip: 1/30
Chip setting at f1: 1/15
Chip setting at f2: 1/25
Chip setting at f4.5: 1/50

The chip is definitively affecting metering...

Any similar results out there?

Last edited by Gariber (2011-04-08 04:14:40)

Canon 7D, 30D, Sigma 8-16, Sigma 17-70, Spotmatic SPII, 15 Taks from 24 to 400, Jupiter 9, Canon FD 200 f2.8 and 300 f4.
www.flickr.com/photos/31624729@N07/

Re: Focus confirm confirmed?

Do you know what buyer you used,  and does your adapter fit good and tight to the camera?

Thanks, Del

Re: Focus confirm confirmed?

Gariber wrote:

Glimavitor,

Thank you for your explanation, but I know very well how the autofocus system works. I understand that the adaptor is not responsible for the focus, but the camera is. I just thought I'd share my appreciation of it as it was the kind of information I was looking for to help me make up my mind on buying one or not, but never found.


Yes, like I said, I thought you might "be tired of knowing all this" wink, I took the time to write it thinking maybe it will be usefull for someone in the future...


Gariber wrote:

On thing that I find strange is that I seem to get over exposed image (one stop) with the chipped adaptor compared to a non chipped adaptor, regardless of focus or aperture setting (f2, 5.6 and 16) . I tried on a real life contrasty scene and on a gray card. Any clue as to why? The only difference between the two is that one of them is black... I doubt that this could affect metering.


Well, AFAIK, with a regular (chipless) adapter, the camera will default at center-weight metering, and that is not as acurate as matrix (especially if you're not expecting it). I supose it happens the same with a chipped adapter, as there is no info regarding lens focal length being provided to the camera (is there?), nor about focus distance (Nikon at least take this info into consideration for the exposure calculations, not sure if Canon do so, too hmm).

Anyway, Canon users here at the forum state that more recent Canon cameras are pretty messed up as far as metering with old glass goes (as surely you have already found out wink). My experience with Pentax is the same, pre-A-series lenses usually meter poorly at smaller-than-full apeture, wich is actually strange, as M-series and adapted lenses measure in stop-down mode (wich is supposed to be the most acurate way of measuring tongue). So far, I've had no real problem with A-series and newer lenses...

As for the adapter being black or metal finish, I'd say it MIGHT have an efect in the photo (i.e., if there are metal parts exposed to the light path, wich may cause internal reflections), but I don't think it would affect the meter readings (surely not more than 1 stop).

Gariber wrote:

Could the chip it self have an effect?

I once read that Canon was compensating on some very fast primes by over exposing the pictures, for not being able to pickup all the light from the lens because of the micro lenses on the sensor:

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/essay … rers.shtml

On the 7D their is almost 1 EV compensation with lenses with 1.2 openings! I programed my chip with a F2 max aperture so I doubt that this is the reason.

Anybody with a clue? Thanks!


Sorry, can't say I have info on the subject sad.

Part of the argument seems to me to be flawed. The reason the Leica's sensors are engineered diferently, is not because of the large aperture lenses, it's due to the small register distance. This in fact may be an interesting point to put in another thread here in the forum, about the Sony NEX cameras (not sure you read it, it's pretty interesting, and the discussion has diverted a bit to its use with old, fast primes, namely rangefinder lenses). But I'm drifting...


Is it possible to use your chips without programing lens info? I mean, just using the AF confirm feature, and finding the exposure "the hard way"?

I never had any kind of metering with my D40 (with manual glass wink), and always did alright ("guestimating" shutter speeds and adjusting if necessary). Also, never noticed any of the problems mentioned in that article, even with my f-1.2 Rokkor (never realy compared, tough hmm).


Anyway, long answer, hope this helps. Cheers!

Nikon: D7000; F2; F4; FA. RMC Tokina 17/3,5; Ensinor 24/2,8 Macro; Nikkor: S.C. 50/1,4; AI-s 28/2,8; Micro 55/2,8; 80-200/4; S. E: 35/2,5; 100/2,8; Viv. S. 1 105/2,5 Macro (Kiron); MC Rokkor PG 58/1,2; Canon FD 300/4; Pentacon 135/2,8.
Pentax: K20D; CZJ Flek 20/4; SMC Pentax: A 28/2,8; 50/1,7; M 50/1,4; Tak. 50/1,4; Tamron Adall 2: SP 90/2,5 Macro; SP 60-300; 35-70/3,5 CF; .
And some others...

Re: Focus confirm confirmed?

OK, after some time with the adapters, here are the results.

It is extremely strange how the camera changes it's metering with a "lens" hocked up. After a lot of tests, I found that setting the chip to present a f2.8 max app lens yields the closest results to not having a chip. Even then, when closing down de lens, the metering gets off, over exposing the image. -Now before any of you tries to explain to me that metering closed down with MF lenses will often over expose the pictures, I would like to point out that I do not have any metering problems, or barely any, when using my lenses with the un-chipped adapters.- The article I linked earlier could explain for changes in metering wide open, but why does it change when less light enters the camera? Not a clue... This is actually very annoying.

Other then this, my first FC adapter, with Optix V5+ chip, works very well. I got it from shamino123 on eBay. This one has the lens nicely centered and firmly attached to the camera, no wiggling. It has the "Trap Focus Mode" that works, although you need to do a little manipulation to enter it and to get out of it. It's programming is done mostly with the DOF preview button, with out the need to release the shutter. It comes with a nicely printed programming instructions.

The two other I got are a bit cheeper (technically and halve the price of the other). I got them from cam.plus. At first, I though that one of them was faulty as the contact between the chip and the camera was inconsistent. But I tried a heavier lens and it works fine. On both of them, the lenses are a little off center as if it should screw in a little further. This probably shows a poorly machined adapters, but it still works.  The programming is done via the shutter release, witch is annoying as I took a good 100+ pictures to program the two adapters. Just to enter the focal length, if you get it on the first try, it takes 12 pictures...   It does not have the Trap focus mode but it allows the EXIF to be representative of the aperture used for the picture if you dial in the actual lens aperture on the camera. To achieve this you need to fiddle around with metering as the camera will change exposure time when changing the aperture values. I did not try this really. The micro focussing adjustment is also tricky to get as the logic behind the values (0-31) is not clear to me. Adjusting this took a big bunch of pictures.... Also, the camera does not recognize each adapters as different lenses so the camera adjustment can not be used. (the Optix V5+ could work better for this as the in camera adjustment recognize the focal length, but since I only have one I can't say for sure)

All in all i'm happy to have gotten those. Anybody with similar experience? specially regarding the metering?

I hope this can help others!

Cheers

Canon 7D, 30D, Sigma 8-16, Sigma 17-70, Spotmatic SPII, 15 Taks from 24 to 400, Jupiter 9, Canon FD 200 f2.8 and 300 f4.
www.flickr.com/photos/31624729@N07/

Re: Focus confirm confirmed?

Glimavitor:

Yes their is a focal length information stored in the chip, but no you can't have a settingless chip as it comes with default values of 50mm f1.4. Their is obviously no focus distance provided to the camera. As far as a change in metering mode, this is not an issue on the 7D as you can set the desired metering mode no matter if their is a lens or not.

"Anyway, Canon users here at the forum state that more recent Canon cameras are pretty messed up as far as metering with old glass goes (as surely you have already found out )."

That is strange as I found my 7D to meter extremely well, that is before the use of FC adaptors...

Thanks for the comments!

Canon 7D, 30D, Sigma 8-16, Sigma 17-70, Spotmatic SPII, 15 Taks from 24 to 400, Jupiter 9, Canon FD 200 f2.8 and 300 f4.
www.flickr.com/photos/31624729@N07/

Re: Focus confirm confirmed?

Since gasrocks got me hooked on some of these MF lenses i have encountered the same over exposure problem since every one of the 5 lenses i fitted with an AF confirm adapter. I just got into a habit if its a time composed landscape shot i chimp and peak at the histogram and adjust EV and then nail the focus and shoot, and i dont need much if any exposure adjustment in post PP. 

Im using the Canon 60D since the articulating swivel screen makes using Live View easier for me in awkward angle shots.

Regards, wink

Silverfox1

Re: Focus confirm confirmed?

Thanks Silverfox for the info. I hesitated a lot between the 60D and the 7D and I do miss the swivel screen some times!

This is really strange and this whole thing about how sensors (specially Canon's) loose light from bright lenses makes you reconsider the money to be placed on super bright < f1.4 lenses... AF or MF!

Cheers

Canon 7D, 30D, Sigma 8-16, Sigma 17-70, Spotmatic SPII, 15 Taks from 24 to 400, Jupiter 9, Canon FD 200 f2.8 and 300 f4.
www.flickr.com/photos/31624729@N07/

12

Re: Focus confirm confirmed?

Hello all,
i am new among oyu even if i have read a lot all your usefull informations before making the jump.
I began few weeks ago with old lenses and my ring mount on canon eos and i don't face this problem with the chipset.
The fact is that mine is set to make appear 50mm @ f2. However i use it mainly to confirm the focus, specially in low lights or los contrast, for the rest, what i see is what i will obtain. Sometime i switch to full manual to compensate the speed and time to time i do it on Live View which give me histograms etc.. but i think that part of photography is also to manage exceptions we face and what makes it interesting.
To be honest i am really happy with this ring and more with my lenses ( pentacon 30mm\3.5, soligor auto 50mm\1.8, Helios 44-2 and my incredible tamron auto 135/2.8), even so much happy that the 18-55 is is back in box.

Re: Focus confirm confirmed?

Welcome GDO,

You bring up a good point that in Live View, my camera meters perfectly! Metering is different in this mode...

I agree with you that photography is also about dealing with light in an intelligent manner but I find frustrating, after not having any problems for months and having solid reference on when to compensate, that now with this aded information on the lens every thing is to be relearned...

Canon 7D, 30D, Sigma 8-16, Sigma 17-70, Spotmatic SPII, 15 Taks from 24 to 400, Jupiter 9, Canon FD 200 f2.8 and 300 f4.
www.flickr.com/photos/31624729@N07/

Re: Focus confirm confirmed?

Since we have a 60D and 7D user here....

How well do you find your bodies focus with the manual focus lenses? 

I'm undecided between the 60D and 7D...If I recall, the 60D has interchangeable screens....the 7D doesn't.

Canon 30D/450D/s90, 35/F2, 50/1.8 mkI, 18-55 IS, 28-105/3.5-4.5, 70-210/3.5-4.5 Canons; MF Nikkors (50/1.4AIS, 50/2K, 60/2.8 Micro-Nikkor, 85/1.8K-AI, 105/2.5-AIS, 135/2.8K and 135/2.8 AI'd Q.C, 180/2.8-ED, 200/4Q-AI and 200/4 AIS, 300/4.5 AI'd-H, Vivitar Series1 70-210/28-90; Vivitar/Kiron 28/2, Olympus 24/2.8, G3; for film: Rebel 2k, Nikon FE2

Re: Focus confirm confirmed?

kitaman wrote:

the 60D has interchangeable screens....the 7D doesn't.

I haven't wrung mine out enough yet to make a decision.    What I would be comparing it to is my 40D/ 7D,  both with live view.   I have a split screen for the 40,  but don't use it.   Katz,  at least   DOES SHOW   a screen available for the 7D

It's just that there are no FACTORY  alternative screens for the 7D

Re: Focus confirm confirmed?

Roadrunner is right, there is a screen offered by Katzeye optics for the 7D. I had a Katz screen for my 30D and I found it great to use. I did't feel the need for one on the 7D because of live view. Also, I don't know what will happen to the in-screen information of the 7D.

I chose the 7D for many reasons. One of them is the ergonomics. I didn't want to loos the thumb joystick. The handling is also better in hand (I have large hands). For MF lenses, I liked the 8ips for having more chance to get a focused shot by moving slightly the focus when shooting. I also liked the view finder.

On the other hand, the 60D is cheaper and the swivle screen would be practical.

With the Focus confirm adaptor, it's great! The focus is way better then if I had tried it by eye (without a focusing screen) and I rarely find any difference when comparing with LV. I can't say if it would be any different with the 60D.

If it had been available when I bought mine I would have considered seriously the Pentax K-5. Better or equal in many points compared to the 7D... I only had one Ef-s lens at the time so I wouldn't have lost a lot, but would have gained in body stabilization.

Hope it helps,

Regard

Bernard

Canon 7D, 30D, Sigma 8-16, Sigma 17-70, Spotmatic SPII, 15 Taks from 24 to 400, Jupiter 9, Canon FD 200 f2.8 and 300 f4.
www.flickr.com/photos/31624729@N07/

Re: Focus confirm confirmed?

I had the 7D and since i dont do BIF or fast action sports with my AF zooms, primes , & teles i decided on the 60D once gasrocks got me interested in these vintage MF lenses. Bought the 60D & saw how much i liked the articulating screen and sold the 7D and dont miss it one bit. I even feel the IQ is slightly sharper with the 60D even though they both use the exact same sensor. Im hoping if Canon releases the new 5D MKIII this summer it has an improved AF system and also incorporates the swivel screen like the 60D. Having both formats would suit my styles perfectly. The 60D works very well with these MF lenses and i have no intentions to swap out the focus screen. The articulating screen allows you to get in alot of different angles using LV & 5X that was difficult if not impossible to accomplish with the 7D & its fixed LCD.

Even gasrocks is now a proud owner of a 60D since he really enjoys doing macro on flowers, etc. the swivel screen will be great for him and his macro objectives. Standing upright and resting the battery grip of the 60D on my belt buckle with the articulating screen swung out and me looking down at it and performing MF with LV is very neat and a treat on my old back when i want to shoot a macro shot at waist level.

Regards,  wink

Silverfox1

Re: Focus confirm confirmed?

Hi,

can anyone say something about on-camera focus micro-adjustment which AFAIK is present on recent Canon one and two digit bodies?
I'm using AF-confirm chip equipped adapters with 350D and I had to mess the mirror angle with the 0.05" hex wrench to have AF usable with the 400mm lenses.
smile

Actual favorites:(PL)?ZK Edar 2.8/100, (USSR) Mir-1w 37/2.8, Fujinon 1.8/55,
Helios-44-x 2/58, Jupiter-37A 3.5/135, Jupiter-21M 4/200, CZJ Prakticar 4/300
(D) Primotar 3.5/135,  Telemegor 5.5/180 Orestor 2.8/135 and Orestegor 4/200
My humble gallery:

Re: Focus confirm confirmed?

Hi Wariag,

The AF micro adjustment works well (7D). You can set this adjustment for all lens or per lens. Although, it depends on the FC adapter you have because the camera might not recognize each of your adapters as different lenses. If it doesn't, it will keep the adjustment for every lens. Also, some newer FC adapters have micro adjustment in it's program. Again, this might be better on some adapters then others. The two that I have work differently and one is better then the other, but still, they are useful.

Hope this help.

Cheers

Canon 7D, 30D, Sigma 8-16, Sigma 17-70, Spotmatic SPII, 15 Taks from 24 to 400, Jupiter 9, Canon FD 200 f2.8 and 300 f4.
www.flickr.com/photos/31624729@N07/

Re: Focus confirm confirmed?

There are at least two pages which explain -at least one very scientifically-how microadjusting is working. i have a target but it seems out of production or seller not around anymore.
there are alternatives on ebay. focussing-targets i could imagine is the right word.

Re: Focus confirm confirmed?

On which chip switching between AF(Focus-trap) and M can be done outside camera with AF-options? the right settings inside menue must be set.
dont remember which of the chips can do that. maybe optixpcb or EMF or dandelion. Tagotech-mounting on M42 in the make. already working but not glued yet.

Re: Focus confirm confirmed?

Be aware of Optixpcb C/Y-EOS-adapter. dont buy. is not reliable. lens is falling off and signal get lost because of wobbling. never had that on no adapter. Highprecision more expensive one used. AND: OPTIXPCB HK told to send back defective adapter and does not pay/react. AVOID them at least for the mentioned model. Highprecision is a cheap noname(nothing highprecision) with added metallic steel for chip. cheaper ones price almost identical.... here

http://www.pebbleplace.com/Personal/Con … pters.html
is a precise instruction how to setup adapters to fit lenses perfectly. MUST READ site.

Last edited by europanorama (2016-12-16 07:11:13)