Topic: Printing-Nikkor 150mm

Having been using the 105mm version for many months, I now have the 150mm version which has the same kind of performance, but over a wider range of magnifications and is as good at f11 as at f2.8 (according to one website).

The main disadvantage is that it weighs over 1kg, compared to the 377g of my copy of the 105. On the necessary 220mm or so extension required for 1:1, more for higher magnification, the leverage of that weight is considerable. Yesterday I stopped photographing, due to sweat running into my eyes.

A plus is that the 150 has an adjustment for the position of the diaphragm, according to the magnification in use. Otherwise symmetrical, and with 62mm filter rings at both ends, this adjustment surely means it needs to be used mounted in one direction for optimum performance (contrary to what some bloggers suggest).

Another advantage is that I have been able to (with as light modification) use two Canon 65mm lens tripod mount rings to hold two (RC) flash guns on the barrel for macro illumination.

Here are some images (f11) from the first major session with the lens. They are at 1:1 at the sensor, 2:1 with m4/3 crop. The first is with one large flash and one small one mounted further back that mentioned above, as used with other lenses.  The second is with two guns forward on the barrel, with the large one still back on an L-bracket, level with the camera body:

http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/ufiles/70/1189770.jpg

http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/ufiles/88/1190288.jpg

Last edited by e6filmuser (2015-09-20 19:04:09)

Re: Printing-Nikkor 150mm

Here is the current setup for my Printing Nikkor 105mm (at 1:1). It currently connects to m4/3 tubes, then to M42, with an M42 helicoid. The magnification can be lower or higher, using an additional helicoid or tubes.

Two flash guns (FL-300R) are mounted on ball-joint shoes, which are each attached to a slightly modified canon 65mm lens tripod adapter ring.

Additional light is from a powerful flash (FL-50R) on the L-bracket.

All flash are controlled (RC) by the unit (FL-LM2) on the hot shoe.

The present extension rings are not entirely up to handling over 1kg of lens, plus the flash guns. It will be replaced by film OM tubes and telescopic tubes.

http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/ufiles/54/1193154.jpg

http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/ufiles/55/1193155.jpg

http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/ufiles/56/1193156.jpg

Re: Printing-Nikkor 150mm

Your setup looks very expensive, but the results are extremly good.

The plasticity is simply unbelievable.

Congratulation!

Hanoi

Re: Printing-Nikkor 150mm

Hanoi wrote:

Your setup looks very expensive, but the results are extremly good.

The plasticity is simply unbelievable.

Congratulation!

Hanoi

Thanks. the whole thing is probably less expensive that some of the Canon D bodies.

The flash guns have to be the R series for remote control and metering. I have previously used legacy guns in calibrated manual setups with a digital camera.

The lens itself can be very expensive. It cost $16,500 in 1968 for Hollywood film companies, the equivalent of $112,000 today but I paid less than £1,000. Its unique feature is that the diaphragm position can be moved to where it is optimum for the magnification in use.

Re: Printing-Nikkor 150mm

I just had a weird experience with this lens.

Sometimes for macro, I will put a high quality teleconverter behind the prime lens, to gain magnification and DOF at the same working distance.

I tried this with this lens and was surprised at an effect I have never seen before in decades of photography. With the TC  placed in the conventional position, just behind the lens, I found the opposite of what I was expecting. I had to move away* from the subject to regain focus and the magnification was down, such that the field of view was increased by the ratio in which I wanted a decrease. It was a x1.5 TC and the field of view had increased by linear 50%.

* I didn't measure the two distances.

Re: Printing-Nikkor 150mm

That is very weird indeed!
May be you have to place some extension between lens and the TC to get the wanted effect?

Re: Printing-Nikkor 150mm

Minolfan wrote:

That is very weird indeed!
May be you have to place some extension between lens and the TC to get the wanted effect?

A TC can be used in various places in the extension, which in this case is about 220mm. This morning I will put in as close to the camera as the mount will allow. I have done this before, with other lenses. The magnification factor will always be different in the two positions for a given lens. If I recall correctly, the difference is in proportion to the focal length. That supposes the above effect is not still present.

Watch this space.

Re: Printing-Nikkor 150mm

Just to add to the above observation. There was no inversion of the images, just the decrease in magnification where I expected an increase.

There was some chromatic aberration. In this context, weeks earlier I obtained some quiet strange light effects. I was just playing around, seeing if a very short extension might get infinity focus. I can't remember exactly what I saw but I have vague memories of a white, diffuse disc of light with bluish edges, no image resolved. You might say "what do you expect in a lens designed for copying and optimised at 1:1?". If you don't try you don't find. I obtained lovely results, at distance, from my Schneider HM 40mm enlarger lens, possible only on m4/3.

Last edited by e6filmuser (2016-01-26 10:35:06)

Re: Printing-Nikkor 150mm

Further experimentation has established two things:

1) The expected function of the TC is obtained by inserting it between the adapter and the extension.
2) The chromatic aberration was, as I predicted, largely due to the TC's position behind the lens, with a contribution from the test chart and sensor not being very parallel.

For enthusiasts, here are the working details. (Measurements, other than FOV, to nearest 5mm).

Because I am using an m4/3 camera, with a crop factor of 2, the FOV at 1:1 (full frame, effectively 2:1 from the crop factor) is 17.5mm. The extension was such as to give this. Insertion of the TC should not, effectively, increase the extension, although it does physically. The adjustable position of the lens diaphragm was set at 1:1 throughout.

For simplicity, the starting magnification will be taken as x1.

Without the TC: FOV was 18mm, working distance (no hood used) 245mm, subject to sensor distance 590mm, magnification x1

x1.5 TC behind lens: FOV 30mm,  working distance 650mm, subject to sensor distance 1035mm, magnification x0.6

x1.5 TC behind extension:  FOV 13mm, working distance 270mm, subject to sensor distance 650mm, magnification x1.4

The distance of the mount of the TC from the sensor was 170mm when behind the lens, 86mm when attached to the adapter.

Please note that insertion of a TC would normally leave the working distance the same, so this may give a different magnification when the lens is set for other values by varying the extension. (I am not about to investigate that!).

Turning to the question of chromatic aberration:

The target was a test chart ISO 12233 resolution chart for digital lenses, the recognised standard.

I set my printer to give the best quality and the best blacks with maximum DPI selected and printed onto A4 card. Even so, at 1:1 coloured specks can be seen throughout. The bottom line is that, on brief but careful viewing, there in no difference with the TC in place.

It looks promising that I can use the TC  to gain a stop's worth of additional DOF. We shall see. I have to look closer at the resolution of detail and I am not sure if I have enough images for this purpose. The aperture of particular interest is the lens's minimum one of f11.

Last edited by e6filmuser (2016-01-26 11:24:07)

Re: Printing-Nikkor 150mm

The color saturation you are getting is AMAZING!

I put that adapter in a safe place, never to be seen again.

Re: Printing-Nikkor 150mm

Ballen Photo wrote:

The color saturation you are getting is AMAZING!

Thanks but that is probably just normal contrast optimisation. I don't do anything with colour.

I will have a full frame body delivered today. That should enable me to squeeze every bit of performance out of my lenses but I suspect that the EM-1 will be the go-to camera.

Re: Printing-Nikkor 150mm

Thanks to share  your technical explanations and congratulations for your superb pictures

I am a Pentacon and kiev( MF and35 mm) user,and also :contaxII,III,IIa  ,contaflex , contarex bullseye ,voigtlander ....

Re: Printing-Nikkor 150mm

ikonpeter wrote:

Thanks to share  your technical explanations and congratulations for your superb pictures

Thanks. I have been seriously into photography, with a strong interest in close-ups/macro, for over three decades. I still learn something almost every day. We can learn from each other and not have to all make the same mistakes. In this case, few photographers will have the opportunity to use such a lens, so it is all the more important to share our experience of using it.

Re: Printing-Nikkor 150mm

I just took a look. I should point out that this is a fixed focus lens and getting the very sharpest detail requires very tiny movements of the lens. With the camera, extension and lens on a heavy Benbo tripod, this is very tedious, requiring slight nudges of one or more tripod legs and/or adjustments in height of the central column and/or fine rotation of the ball joint. Also, pressure on the shutter release button can cause visible changes in focus. Flash was essential, with the camera in manual mode.

After finding my DIY test chart not fully satisfactory (see above) I dug out a Photography Magazine glossy one, with some very fine detail. This is the one I have used for other lens tests.

For the resolution, very slight differences in focus were more significant than any difference in fine detail resolved with or without the TC. Examination of several images, from the lens alone and from the TC between the extension and the adapter, showed the resolution to be the same for all practical purposes.

With the TC, there was some chromatic aberration where some large blocks of lack edges touched some edges of white blocks along straight edges. These, very thin blue or orange, lines could easily be edited out if no other problems were found in macro use. Everything photographed was a mixture of black and white, down to extremely tiny black dots. No so aberration was seen where smaller black shapes met their white surroundings.

Last edited by e6filmuser (2016-01-27 09:45:40)

Re: Printing-Nikkor 150mm

e6filmuser wrote:
Ballen Photo wrote:

The color saturation you are getting is AMAZING!

Thanks but that is probably just normal contrast optimisation. I don't do anything with colour.

I will have a full frame body delivered today. That should enable me to squeeze every bit of performance out of my lenses but I suspect that the EM-1 will be the go-to camera.

I was referring more so to the capture of the image as opposed to any sort of processing.
The colors are very vivid.

I put that adapter in a safe place, never to be seen again.

Re: Printing-Nikkor 150mm

Ballen Photo wrote:
e6filmuser wrote:
Ballen Photo wrote:

The color saturation you are getting is AMAZING!

Thanks but that is probably just normal contrast optimisation. I don't do anything with colour.

I will have a full frame body delivered today. That should enable me to squeeze every bit of performance out of my lenses but I suspect that the EM-1 will be the go-to camera.

I was referring more so to the capture of the image as opposed to any sort of processing.
The colors are very vivid.

Yes. What looked, at first glance, like a Large (Cabbage) White butterfly caterpillar was simply stunning through the lens.

I took some shots at about 1:1 with the TC in the proximal position this morning and have completed the initial selection. I should have some to show later today and/or tomorrow.

Re: Printing-Nikkor 150mm

Here are some images, at just under 1:1 and f11 on the lens, TC in proximal position, from today. Triple flash at ISO 200, hand-held, with some support. The subject is a jelly fungus on a twig.

http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/ufiles/40/1249040.jpg?ts=1453913246

Cross-eye stereo:

http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/ufiles/41/1249041.jpg?ts=1453913246

http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/ufiles/42/1249042.jpg?ts=1453913246

Re: Printing-Nikkor 150mm

Disgusting but very sharp image !

I am a Pentacon and kiev( MF and35 mm) user,and also :contaxII,III,IIa  ,contaflex , contarex bullseye ,voigtlander ....

Re: Printing-Nikkor 150mm

ikonpeter wrote:

Disgusting but very sharp image !

Thanks. It happened that I spotted the fungus and remembered that DOF was quite an issue with them. So I decided to try the 150mm and TC combination.

The fungus doesn't have too many details to test resolution, such being the nature of jellies. Some lichens, shot afterwards, images not yet processed, may be rather more suitable for this purpose.

Last edited by e6filmuser (2016-01-27 19:08:15)

Re: Printing-Nikkor 150mm

Here are some lichens from the same session:

The subject was growing on a slender apple tree twig, and was far from flat, as shown in the stereo, It really used all the additional DOF.

The stereo is cross-eye.

The main lichen is Xanthoria parientina in its green form, with Physcia in the first image.

There is some residual noise from the bokeh in the background, which I am content to tolerate at this stage of the project, normal NR having been done.

http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/ufiles/71/1249371.jpg

http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/ufiles/72/1249372.jpg

http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/ufiles/74/1249374.jpg

Re: Printing-Nikkor 150mm

These last two images are impressive !

I am a Pentacon and kiev( MF and35 mm) user,and also :contaxII,III,IIa  ,contaflex , contarex bullseye ,voigtlander ....

Re: Printing-Nikkor 150mm

ikonpeter wrote:

These last two images are impressive !

Thanks. Can you make cross-eye stereos work?

The DOF really shows in the stereo, beyond my expectations.

Re: Printing-Nikkor 150mm

No , I can't , my brain has not yet been modified !
I have  never succeeded to see one single image  from two , in stereo .

I am a Pentacon and kiev( MF and35 mm) user,and also :contaxII,III,IIa  ,contaflex , contarex bullseye ,voigtlander ....

Re: Printing-Nikkor 150mm

WOW!!! incredible set up - what results... well done indeed!

Re: Printing-Nikkor 150mm

ikonpeter wrote:

No , I can't , my brain has not yet been modified !
I have  never succeeded to see one single image  from two , in stereo .

Just to annoy you smile here are some more, from today:

http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/ufiles/43/1249443.jpg






http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/ufiles/45/1249445.jpg






http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/ufiles/44/1249444.jpg